Regarding Q. 2. Many years ago as part of my recovery I entered counseling. In trying to answer the counselor's questions I realized that language is a poor vehicle for expression of the human psyche. I finally said to him, "look if each part of my brain was represented by an instrument in a symphonic orchestra and each instrument was able to convey what was going on in different partsof my me, then maybe I could sort of answer your question: How are you feeling?" It was shortly after that I began studying eastern thought in earnest. I then understood that language is binary and the psyche is anything but.
With respect to question #3, there comes to mind there are at least two types of pain, physical and mental or emotional pain. The former, physical pain has been addressed by an athletic cliche, “no pain no gain.” The Marine Corps has also addressed physical pain as ,”Pain is weakness leaving the body.” If these make sense the answer to #3 is yes. Turning now to emotional pain, the answer seems more elusive. When walking down the street, someone encounters a homeless drug addicted begged. Is there not an initial pain response? For some if there is it is not evident , as they continue on their way. Others stop to share some money, advice or offer other assistance. For those who regularly do this or those who set out to find needy individuals, it seems there is no initial pain only an opportunity. However, this does not address the pain that I shall call resultant pain. This pain arises when the observer lacks the resources to provide meaningful assistance, or worse giving assistance means risking one’s own wellbeing. This is we’re #3 really becomes , in my view, reverent. Is the pain innately inevitable, or is is source societal expectations generated by religion, fairytales, or hero worship for those who lost their health or life in saving or attempting to save another! A go fund me account cannot replace a mother, father husband or wife,etc. So an attempt to alleviate pain actually generates more pain. Back in the 60a or 70s, there was a fairly often repeated cliche, “don’t try to lay your guilt trip on me.” I find it interesting that my thoughts on question #3 are also relevant to quotation #1.
Q3: "Does avoiding the suffering of the world ultimately lead to a deeper, more isolating form of suffering, and if so, is engagement with pain an essential part of a meaningful life?"
We can't avoid 'the suffering of the world' because we are connected to it via collective consciousness, as indeed we are to Nature. Some people are more sensitive to this suffering than others. Meaningfulness is directly related to how deeply, and with how much integrity, and with how much intensity we engage with whatever is our felt experience of the suffering. To some extent the depth and the intensity with which we engage with suffering, is a choice. We have Free Will. We can also choose to turn a blind eye, or deaf ear, to suffering; get distracted ... but sometimes suffering will bang on the door of our hearts so loudly, there is no choice but to engage.
I think I wrote to you a while ago criticizing you for not sourcing your quotes. While I believe true dialogue with the source material is only possible in context, making a direct link to the source desirable, I want to walk back a bit and thank you for providing the quotes you do. And the questions. They're good for a bit of mental exercise... on the regular, as the kids say these days!
Question 2 response: We as people lack perfect knowledge, including of ourselves. I think we can try and express ourselves as best as possible but aren't always completely aware of how we truly feel.
Are feelings are a separate consideration, because of our general lack of awareness of them consciously.
Regarding Q. 2. Many years ago as part of my recovery I entered counseling. In trying to answer the counselor's questions I realized that language is a poor vehicle for expression of the human psyche. I finally said to him, "look if each part of my brain was represented by an instrument in a symphonic orchestra and each instrument was able to convey what was going on in different partsof my me, then maybe I could sort of answer your question: How are you feeling?" It was shortly after that I began studying eastern thought in earnest. I then understood that language is binary and the psyche is anything but.
A lot of the time humans are not self-aware, especially in the moment, of how they feel and their emotions.
Feelings are just as important as logic, and sometimes feelings are even more important logic.
With respect to question #3, there comes to mind there are at least two types of pain, physical and mental or emotional pain. The former, physical pain has been addressed by an athletic cliche, “no pain no gain.” The Marine Corps has also addressed physical pain as ,”Pain is weakness leaving the body.” If these make sense the answer to #3 is yes. Turning now to emotional pain, the answer seems more elusive. When walking down the street, someone encounters a homeless drug addicted begged. Is there not an initial pain response? For some if there is it is not evident , as they continue on their way. Others stop to share some money, advice or offer other assistance. For those who regularly do this or those who set out to find needy individuals, it seems there is no initial pain only an opportunity. However, this does not address the pain that I shall call resultant pain. This pain arises when the observer lacks the resources to provide meaningful assistance, or worse giving assistance means risking one’s own wellbeing. This is we’re #3 really becomes , in my view, reverent. Is the pain innately inevitable, or is is source societal expectations generated by religion, fairytales, or hero worship for those who lost their health or life in saving or attempting to save another! A go fund me account cannot replace a mother, father husband or wife,etc. So an attempt to alleviate pain actually generates more pain. Back in the 60a or 70s, there was a fairly often repeated cliche, “don’t try to lay your guilt trip on me.” I find it interesting that my thoughts on question #3 are also relevant to quotation #1.
Q3: "Does avoiding the suffering of the world ultimately lead to a deeper, more isolating form of suffering, and if so, is engagement with pain an essential part of a meaningful life?"
We can't avoid 'the suffering of the world' because we are connected to it via collective consciousness, as indeed we are to Nature. Some people are more sensitive to this suffering than others. Meaningfulness is directly related to how deeply, and with how much integrity, and with how much intensity we engage with whatever is our felt experience of the suffering. To some extent the depth and the intensity with which we engage with suffering, is a choice. We have Free Will. We can also choose to turn a blind eye, or deaf ear, to suffering; get distracted ... but sometimes suffering will bang on the door of our hearts so loudly, there is no choice but to engage.
Answer to Follow-up question to
Quote 2:
So given even insurmountable gaps between thought, speech, writing,
what's to stop true self-expression of incomplete thought, unvetted speech, and imperfect writing?
Communication received has too many opportunities to distort from inner sent realities,
so how's that to prevent the flowering of responses as consequence of even misunderstandings, and lateral interpretations?
I think I wrote to you a while ago criticizing you for not sourcing your quotes. While I believe true dialogue with the source material is only possible in context, making a direct link to the source desirable, I want to walk back a bit and thank you for providing the quotes you do. And the questions. They're good for a bit of mental exercise... on the regular, as the kids say these days!
The quotes and questions are a good and enjoyable thought exercise. It's like a bit-size thought for the day.
Question 2 response: We as people lack perfect knowledge, including of ourselves. I think we can try and express ourselves as best as possible but aren't always completely aware of how we truly feel.
Are feelings are a separate consideration, because of our general lack of awareness of them consciously.